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 楼主| 发表于 2011-2-14 04:58:17 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 necrodesu 于 2011-2-15 06:09 编辑

(D)
(F)
(R)
(W) - no need
(E)

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发表于 2011-2-14 09:19:14 | 显示全部楼层
Quite impressive!Would you please share all of them to us?
I mean could you please pack the icons together?
I long for them!
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 楼主| 发表于 2011-2-14 16:58:04 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 necrodesu 于 2011-2-14 17:02 编辑

回复 285# bloodyliao


    If this is what you wish for, than, here we go.
http://www.mediafire.com/?7m3p396hr82zaw8
http://www.mediafire.com/?cng33f0487pen8k


koishi W (?)
吉恋 发表于 2011-2-14 09:59



    I think current (W) is already weird enough, but thank you anyway.

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    发表于 2011-2-14 18:30:38 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 十二月夜 于 2011-2-14 20:07 编辑

    回复 281# necrodesu
    the reply on each page becomes 20 so the pages cut in half.

    (E), maybe not yet.
    if you think (W) is the best than i will trust you.

    mystia get no problem at all, may be changed in recent version by first fighting with the space allow again.

    actually i got some balacing problem on the comment over the board in Shrinemaiden. i am quite wondering if wriggle is overpower enough to be ban. as in here, this character is always considering as a normal hero (some say below power) instead of a overpower one. also about koishi, she share the same comment over it.
    we doesnt often regarding a DPSs as an OP hero.

    in here, the characters said to be overpowered is oftenly
    yuyuko, yukari, kogasa, murasa (as usual)
    sometimes saying about reimu, sanae, alice, pachuli, hina
    before nerfs: tewi , sakuya , satori, minoriko
    (in non-noobs play with data collected from banpick in competition)
    keine may getting on the list actually recent buff is just helping players to play it easier
    [mostly not by getting data from just appearance on normal games]

    i am not going to directly contact to the person there for i want a better summary on opinions. i think you may help me to gather them if possible
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     楼主| 发表于 2011-2-15 02:03:00 | 显示全部楼层
    回复 288# 十二月夜


        Actually I have no connection with these guys at all. Nonetheless I've written to them asking about what they think about balance. Now let's wait a little.
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    发表于 2011-2-15 15:55:24 | 显示全部楼层
    anyway i think i wanna to know about the password of the board DOTS of doujinstyle. or where you guys oftenly go
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    发表于 2011-2-15 16:01:09 | 显示全部楼层
    fine.
    i got comments saying that some icons is too horrible for there are some children and little girls playing this game
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     楼主| 发表于 2011-2-15 22:20:02 | 显示全部楼层
    回复 290# 十二月夜


        Password?.. Ah, the password!
    http://www.doujinstyle.com/forum ... ines/page__st__5640
    Here's the link. DotS clubhouse seems to be abandoned - most people hang around this topic, it's not passworded.

    fine.
    i got comments saying that some icons is too horrible for there are some children and little  ...
    十二月夜 发表于 2011-2-15 16:01



       Now my devotion to painting skulls did scare someone... I would like to officially ask pregnant women and children below 14 to refrain from playing this map - Touhou is serious business. Nonsense! When I intend to draw horrid pics, I usually warn you.


    And now a few words about Shrinemaiden forum.
    Right after my appeal they showed up and I was met with rejoicement. Rather unexpected. I think they are glad somebody is interested in their opinion.
    Than came the tsunami of arguments. Literally. They have helluva lot to say about balance and such. Most of it concerns Wriggle, Koishi and recent changes including new girls and items - they find older versions more balanced.
    Wriggle's invulnerability during its short fade time (way too short) urged some people to abuse it, resulting in a bug-like feature to block many skills including Tenshi's (W). And her beatles are tough enough to farm by themselves. There was also a little whining about difficulties of countering this girl.
    And Koishi is simply considered too boring and easy to play (not too weak - just the opposite), since she has only one active skill and even it does not allow player to control her - you simply run and shoot all game long.
    They also dislike much price changes, since "Farm the best, win like the rest" - matches become competitions of farmers, not fighters.
    Hakkero and Anchor attract most of their resentment.
    Ah, they've discovered a bug - Kogasa in her (W) stealth can be put inside Murasa's boat without breaking the stealth in order to stun-drop her upon someone's head. She can also be gapped by Yukari for similar purposes.

    As for details, there is the whole swarm of small details - you may like to see them for yourself.
    http://www.shrinemaiden.org/foru ... 4791.html#msg554791
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    发表于 2011-2-16 20:51:27 | 显示全部楼层
    In here,
    i am trying to answer some of the changes.
    Infact that, people here its saying about 958x is much more balancing than the old one starting from 954x -> 957x (which 953x i got the same comment)

    About that two bugs, is going to be fixed. I know they have here in a long time, in non-offical competitions, this two using of bugs also got baned. But the guy handling this part is quite busy. I will trying to handle it as quick as possible.

    For the Faith usage, indeed the whole Faith usage need a new balance.
    Moriya thunder and Genji, it may be getting someway wrong (by the way, Genji should be auto-controlled as if Genji gets the old style, the trajectory of girls without the sight can be saw)
    Onbashira's haste and Genji son armour is something that actually unbalanced for only 3 , they can making any girls to evade from death. When they are in 3, people just use it always, but now giving a limit.

    Lets talk about the items:
    In recent changes in items, we are trying to ensure the following three ideas.
    - All items should left the original property it gives
    - Changing some items that are very little appearance
    - Balancing some overpowered item

    Primeterator (monkey) is actually a unuseful item before as there are peach in this game. For my own and lots of people here is only getting up to peach to get the increasing bouns attack speed for 15%(up to max 75%). The price upgrading to monkey is oftenly the last move in the game. So the monkey is decided to delete and change in to Anchor.
    Anchor is something replacing monkey as i told so. As the bonus DPS seems high, but a lot of girls neets peach (for attack speed to increase the ability effect from peach, for ex. Cirno or Suika). Just a decision for girls to choice between this two item, not getting peach upgrade to monkey anymore.

    Hakkero, i guess it could be returned by adding a new item icon with nearly same abilities. By the way, Hakkero in here before change doesnt even have some 1 to get it in 100 games.

    HJBUG and Adamantine
    Its seems something missunderstanding for this two items. Both this two items got increased regen , HJBUG from HPRegen+1->+2 MPRegen 20% -> 40%. And Adamantine from 0 -> the same as HJBUG.
    Its a simple balancing for cutting the armor for Adamantine as its overpowered, we doesnt want some item providing all things, then you dont need other items anymore. Infact, Zun Glasses has the same problem but its not the time to be fixed.

    Llama limited edition , its overpowered not balanced , just simply counting the adding of str/agi/int and the giving ability, its actually should be on a much more expensive price than 4000. I may say that it can be lowered to the original price but with nerfs of giving power.

    Inaba illusion laser - the first point i told on the very first part.
    Stolen Magical book , i got no idea on this thing, i didnt see real problem on people getting it.

    Shinigami Scythe, katana , its a bit overpowered (may be nerf, but not much).
    By the way, i am hoping if necrodesu could give something like this icons for able to make a item for int.

    Green Dam Youth - the second point i told on the very first part.
    3D Escapade - overpowered before
    Ice Cube - the 3 +9items and so ice should not +8 but +9. so far this items has once been +10 for all
    Bun / Sake - the coke and cake has the same problem , maybe this 4 items should be change into 350 350 850 850 in the same time.

    Karakasa box, potential, yet this thing already developed here and it found crazily overpowered.
    this things destorying any balance in any team battle ,with both HP increased and controlling over more than 2 person.
    I am not going to say more about this box.

    Hakurei Shrine Amulet is more on fixing bugs not changing the effect, infact you may saying it right, but it needs quite a lot of time for fixing it again.

    Scarlet Devil Launcher - negative STR bonus will result in bugs, easy form of balancing but we doesnt want anythings expensive than 6000.

    At last,
    about characters balancing,
    we games may have a different environment,
    as i say before, we here DPS heros is oftenly said to be weak (i only agree with tewi is really OP) but a team usally needs 1-2 DPS heros to making real damage (including magical damage such as marisa)
    wriggle was once 0.3s and now just returning back as before she is BP but so far R abilities is OP, i got it.
    Rumia , also with Wriggle, everyone heres knows how to due with this two heros even in lowerlevel game, we didnt really seeing this two characters has a bad balanced.
    The rest of the DPSer i am not going to due with it.

    Kaguya has a totally overpowered D R skills, with useless (i didnt see anyone have it) W skills. neet need fix with the whole set of abilities acutally.
    not going to change the playing, no idea at now.

    Byakuren if i comparing to much heros, i agree it needs nerf, but not much, i will considerating it on the next few version.

    Poor Minoriko, you get the right point of D, but R will not be return(may be getting more but not fully return), actually when a Good R is used (before when it is 50%), it is destorying balance in battle.

    Yooooooooooooooo, Nitori
    Nitori is a tooooooooooooooo large problem that i cant even handle it, please found the creator of Nitori (HJISTC) to due with it. I kept complaining on Nitori but nothing can be done.
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     楼主| 发表于 2011-2-17 02:28:10 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 necrodesu 于 2011-2-17 02:29 编辑

    回复 293# 十二月夜


        I will deliver your answers to Shrinemaiden forum. But first, I'd like to express my own opinion on the subject.


    Actually, most of the fixes they imply are beyond my understanding. Namely Faith system - pricing is the most insignificant part of it, better make more ways of using faith points.

    The items. I always have a lot to say about them.
    A few words about the original properties: if you strive for saving them, why Peach still exists? It also concerns several high-tier items with their out of place Damage bonuses. Sheepshifter, Hakkero. Especially 3dEscapade - why in the world do you need Damage bonus on an item that makes units ethereal?

    Removing unpopular items is a good thing. I don't moan for the Monkey at all. Proceed with it. Remove Yatagarasu, this poor excuse of an Arcane ring - I've seen it only once on Sakuya a long time ago. Now I'm not sure whether it really happened or not. Besides, Hakkero serves the same purpose even better. I think the old one was really better. Indeed it was used quite seldom, but that was its main point - several girls (Remiria, Suwako, Kaguya, sometimes Patchy and Sakuya) relied heavily on it as it made their life much easier and interesting. Now the main point is gone. Its synthesis recipe should also be corrected.

    The removal of Monkey disturbs me in a different way than others: the last item that gives Evasion bonus is now gone. It should be dealt with. No ideas at the moment.

    The Anchor... I think I don't like it either. As far as I see, it was made as a DPS booster to replace the Monkey, that's why it depends on HP. But. Making items HP-dependable like this means only high-STR girls with a lot of HP can use them properly. And they already have enough boosters - the Scythe is not even balanced yet, its formula should be changed to something more suitable and... sinister.

    HJBUG - no problems. Adamantine. There is one single rule in Allstars items: none of them should give +HP and +Armour at the same time. This combination is long been prohibited, you can see it for yourself. So it's a good thing Adamantine was devoid of Armour bonus, it need something other than Birdy instead of it.

    Grey Llama. I dislike this item much. I understand it was made for girls who have lots of free mana to spend. But that's the main problem! And covering it with items instead of solving it is wrong.

    Inaba laser and Chaos teeth. The two items that become more and more similar with each new version - it's wrong. Inaba's recipe should be much more expensive! Since it raises your DPS crazily against more than one target. And I see it becoming cheaper and cheaper instead.
    Scythe, Katana and such. I already have a completed item you mentioned. The "Iron Maiden". Charat should have reported you on it. If not, I can do it here and by myself.

    Green Dam - too similar to Adamantine. It was better the way it was before.

    Bun/Sake - health care goes first! *laugh*

    Karakasa - OPed indeed. Could turn even Marisa into a tank.

    I also have a few ideas on making new items, but I'll save them for later.

    Agreed with Kaguya. Crazy (D) and (R) made too much contrast with useless (F) and (W).
    Nitori... Well, give my best regards to HJISTC for making the most crazy hero on this map!
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    发表于 2011-2-17 03:10:04 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 十二月夜 于 2011-2-17 04:26 编辑

    回复 294# necrodesu
    Me, myself is not following that rule if its really exist but Adamantine does adding too much thing including HP MP HPregen MPregen. I still cannot found a best item to replace on it. I will see if you have any suggestion (maybe a +180hp +150mp is better).
    (i just add a tank item for dealing 30 magical damage around 450 range with 500hp and 8 armor, but atleast it didn't have MP HPregen MPregen, yep... actually more following rules from LoL...
    i name it Fire Phonenix Wings and see if you have a good icon for it, better a pair of wing without a phoenix , and see if you have any opinion)

    Yatagarasu has a much better app. in here, atleast for if i am a supporter, i sometimes get it. Although i know it needs further improvement but currently no idea again (actually without idea is normal, dueing with old problems to us is a big problems).

    Hey. Where is Iron Maiden. Please place it here.

    For those item i didnt mention from your reply, i got no thinking right now.

    Actually the rest of unbalanced hero is not able to solve by solo changing numbers. So it takes times to think of ideas , ideas again. Including the next two sentence i will be mentioning.

    A good news for every player, we got fixed "Yamame's having 2hands and 8legs" BUGs and her "trajectory" will be turned to a hero.
    With abilities changed for Yamame, I think it needs a week to 10days for 959a.

    Anyway , additional information, marisa could be half a tank thanks to the high damage that you didnt even need further dps and you can chose to simply increase your tough or just getting a 3Dimension for mainly mana regen and go for tankers build.
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     楼主| 发表于 2011-2-17 06:07:40 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 necrodesu 于 2011-2-17 06:09 编辑

    Iron Maiden (4700)

    Price: 1300
    Recipe:
    Metallic Chest Protector (300)
    Fruit Knife x2 (500x2)
    Stolen Magic Book (2100)
    Bonus:
    +24 Damage (16)
    +27 Intelligence (18)
    100% chance to block 40 heroic damage
    Armour of the Damned (passive): Any attack against you, be it physical or magical, has a chance to subject the attacker to one of the following negative effects with 6% probability each; Slow - reduces MS by 20% and IAS by 40% for 6 sec, Curse - silences for 3 sec, Weakness - reduces BAD by 60% for 6 sec, Misfortune - reduces accuracy by 30% for 6 sec. A negative effect does not stack with itself, but it does stack with others.
    Description: Discarded raiment of the black angel, it glows with spite; nobody can touch the wearer and walk away unharmed.

    An iconic item of mine, the "Iron Maiden". A whole pack of references. The passive feature may seem wild at first, but I can read you a whole lecture about the origins of it. If you wish. We'll discuss it tomorrow.

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    发表于 2011-2-17 16:03:10 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 十二月夜 于 2011-2-17 16:19 编辑

    回复 296# necrodesu
    I may got this thing, but not right now.
    It seems this thing is too much only for byakuren. A tank and +INT item.

    The meaning of +STR for Scythe, +AGI for Katana, the best is for a similiar item (due damage or effect when you attack) +INT around 3800~4000.
    Well Best counting on INT to due damage, but may need large scale balancing.
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     楼主| 发表于 2011-2-17 20:35:57 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 necrodesu 于 2011-2-17 22:01 编辑

    回复 297# 十二月夜


        The point is, this item was made long before Byakuren to lend some protection to frail INT girls - "Makes Iku think twice before trying to shoot you down". Indeed, it will easily turn Byakuren into a monster.

    A pair of phoenix wings without a phoenix? I'll see what I can find.

    I've recently got a funny idea of making Hakkero from 3 Yatagarasu's to make them more popular. 1625*3=4875 - pretty reasonable, considering the fact that they serve a similar purpose.

    An item with a bonus similar to Scythe and Shutendouji? I can easily make such an effect since my map specializes in weird formulas. And what should be its purpose? Offense too? Byakuren will be delighted, really...
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